How can I help? What is more striking, especially for people who don't like Pentecostals or Charismatics, what's more striking is that the survey also in those 10 countries dealt with Christians who didn't consider themselves Pentecostal or Charismatic. Even her muscles were unatrophied. And of course there's no way to test medically because there was no medic op available. 2023 Blaze Media LLC. In all of human history there has never been one single credible and fully verified miracle cure. Find your thing. He was 2200 in one eye and 2400 in the other and had already been through training for the blind. A blessing to the rest of the Body of Christ. Skepticism is basically that we proportion our belief to the evidence, and we've found (through science) that to do it we need to disbelieve most claims, that we need to acknowledge our biases, and to recognize that even the scientific process is limited. "This was an instantaneous healing of all of her symptoms and all of her illness to the point where 31 years later she's completely healthy," Strobel said. Partly, because we are human and have many biases. This effect has been seen a lot, but a good example is the Rendelsham Forest UFO sighting where there is a big difference between the original reports and the later reports or the Barney and Betty Hill case of alien abduction where one can track the contamination of the story to popular media depictions of aliens. Scott Rae: Close, Medine. What is missing are the controls -- how often does the "treatment" happen and there is no effect, and how often is there an effect but no treatment. Barbaras impact on this university has been so broad and deep that we will not understand the full extent of her legacy for years and perhaps decades to come, Wyant said. You can received notifications daily or weekly. It would seem that these people are constantly dealing with skeptics, and the easiest way to address it would be to get the pre- and post- medical test data rather than a summary by one doctor, after the fact. There's a long list of reasons for this poorly understood condition. She wanted to be with her family even though there was a war going on. Craig Keener: Yes. And he said he prays for people here in the U.S., but it doesn't happen. (Read also:Are the Biblical End Times upon us? Strobel, 66, is a former investigative journalist with the Chicago Tribune. So we interviewed Antoinette Malumbay. This kind of phrasing is trying to stop people from being skeptical of their claims (and only their claims). A gymnast back in high school, Barbara hadn't walked in seven years. Craig serves with me on the Board of Evangelical Theological Society. It isn't irrational to demand a higher-than-average standard for extraordinary claims, no matter what. We we need a whole lot of a whole lot of cases to be able to to examine that. Yeah. Lee Strobels Miracles talk (25 minute segment), Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Proximal Intercessory Prayer (STEPP) on Auditory and Visual Impairments in Rural Mozambique, In conversation with Digital Gnosis (Nathan Ormond), Street Epistemology with Eddie (Deep Discussions), Thoughts on the Randal Rauser vs. Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. At the beginning I didn't find all that. Some initial thoughts Time stamp 4:47 James is right that the evidence on a lot of these cases is really really bad. What would happen if two people out in space a few meters apart, abandoned by their spacecraft, decided to wait until gravity pulled them together? None of these steps are taken in any of these cases. Barbara Rook "Babs" Snyder is an American academic and president of the Association of American Universities. The answer is simple none. And the reason Usually people don't get medical documentation even when it's available. This one is much like the previous one, but there is no study -- just the stories. Kamil makes the interesting point that the testimonies of different religions only reflect what that particular religion has as a theological component. And they said, "Macular degeneration doesn't undegenerate." Barbara Cummiskey Snyder is on Facebook. "It was really the miracle of the resurrection and the historical evidence for that that ended up bringing me to faith many years ago," Strobel told Pure Flix Insider and "The Billy Hallowell Podcast." Now that also put me through some struggles because we were already close friends at that point. You look at the seven churches of Asia in the Book of Revelation. He is, let's just say he is one of the most prolific biblical scholars that I'm aware of and is so productive. It also calls into question the motives of God -- God is more concerned to give you a pool table than to cure leukemia in children or heart defects or nearly anything else. Scott Rae: That's staggering to think about. Christian news 1789; testimonies 1151; evangelism & outreach 1070; missions 993; Top Featured 862; encouragement 743; Tags. As Nathan puts it, it's telling believers who doubt "stop those naughty thoughts." But at a time when higher education itself faces These responses just seem so, I don't know, juvenile to me like it's like they haven't thought about these issues. In his book, The Case for Miracles, evangelist Lee Strobel cites the miraculous healing of Barbara Snyder that took place nearly 30 years ago. But in this case, he had to have the medical documentation be he'd been on disability. She is the former president of Case Western Reserve University. Note that the STEP study mentioned below is, Let me start by saying that there have been gold standard studies before and after STEP that reached the opposite conclusion: that the group receiving prayer had better outcomes, she said. Stories of recalled past memories from past lives only occurs within religions that support reincarnation. Second thing she noticed was her hands were open. These are two red flags which will need some level of caution in establishing the cause of the condition improving. And of course, accounts from the west, it was easier to get the medical documentation so there were strengths with a lot of these. patient on hospice healed by Jesus. It's still healing. Get the news that matters most delivered directly to your inbox. Scott Rae: And then she made it safely to the U.S. and then you were reunited again. This one is obviously ludicrous, but I think undermines the theists claims quite a lot. And, in fact, one doctor described her as being one of the most hopelessly ill patients he'd ever encountered." How is an epistemically responsible thing to do? Honestly, this mistake is primarily due to sloppy reporting -- if you are reporting a set of numbers in a study, especially if you are establishing a timeline of events, you need to make it clear when some numbers are not comparable. Patients in the prayer group had less congestive heart failure, fewer cardiac arrests, fewer episodes of pneumonia, were less often intubated and ventilated, and needed less diuretic and antibiotic therapy. Subsequent medical records document repeated substantial improvement. Scott Rae: So tell Give our listeners a story from the U.S. or some other part of the west where you do have medical documentation to back up the account and to backup the interpretation of it that this is genuinely something miraculous. Scott Rae: Tell me first, one of the books I'd like to talk about first is the book Impossible Love. And I talked with two of her doctors from the time and they both testified, "Yes, this is, there's no medical explanation for this." Couldn't the medical records have been earlier?) unblinded) studies were better. candidates for its presidency.. Not at all, given that all of the facts of his case fall within the known bounds of what is possible and observed, even if rare. And just trying to stay ahead of the soldiers and the fighting. So she basically pulls the tube out of her throat, says, Go find my parents [and] jumps out of bed.. People casually talk about God helping to find their car keys or help their sportsing team win, which are not miraculous but imply the intervention of the agent and thus fall under the same umbrella. We use cookies to better understand website visitors, for advertising, and to offer you a better experience. Brian: Essentially Shermer's complaint about prayer being done and nothing happening is part what you would have in any kind of controlled study because you would have the case looking at all prayer events and which ones had effects and which ones didn't, that's the basic thing they seem unable to even grasp that idea and it shows a certain unwillingness to actually try to find the truth and to rule out these actual alternatives. All I knew was the last letter I got from her said that she didn't know if she was going to live or die. She deteriorated over a period of many years, several operations, many hospitalizations," Strobel explained. He encountered scores of healings and other claims of the miraculous along the way, but there was one case in particular that truly blew his mind: the case of Barbara Snyder. Prophetic messages from respected leaders & news of how God is moving throughout the world. But it's the same situation you have in the Gospels. In 1972, having been blind for over 12 years, the individual reportedly regained her vision instantaneously after receiving proximal-intercessory-prayer (PIP). She mentions a head injury from her accident not a spinal cord injury and never mentions that she was irreversibly paralyzed below the waist. They are claiming there is a causal effect, they are claiming that these things happen regularly enough to be observed, yet they want to hide behind the idea that it is somewhat random and not actually try to test it. The primary studies here are Case Studies, which are some of the lowest and least informative types of studies in medicine (see https://guides.library.stonybrook.edu/evidence-based-medicine/levels_of_evidence) with Meta-studies, Systematic reviews, and Randomized Controlled Studies being the most effective forms. But after a while it just becomes so overwhelming, but I said, "You know, I'm too skeptical myself. To learn about us and today's guest, Dr. Craig Keener and to find more episodes, go to biola.edu/thinkbiblically. And she began dancing around. Her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical turn around. It is interesting the Elijah seems to understand that we need evidence to believe a claim, that we need to weigh alternative hypotheses, but he seems to have no idea what a controlled study is or why it is necessary. Cookies to better understand website visitors, for advertising, and to find more episodes go! The former president of the Body of Christ cases to be able to to examine that think... Directly to your inbox course there 's no way to test medically there. She was irreversibly paralyzed below the waist the individual reportedly regained her instantaneously. Of Asia in the U.S. and then you were reunited again does n't undegenerate. trying! Two red flags which will need some level of caution in establishing the cause of the I! 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